naturally a trucker cap. we tried desperately to get us an official truck arer cap today from david and michael harp in time to show you one in the flesh. ours is apparently in the mail, due to arrive soon. but in the meantime we made our own mock-up of it in anticipation. it it is not nearly as nice as the big thing. and the best new thing in the world, drive on. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow night. i am with the folks in ohio. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" live from toledo, ohio. the president is on tour to promote his jobs bill. tonight, i'm giving the folks of ohio to have a chance to have

their choice voices heard on jobs and a lot of things, especially senate bill number 5. i'm here to talk about american jobs, american workers. you folks okay with that? this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> good to have you here on msnbc, "the ed show." we're beginning a tour of a number of cities. we're first here in toledo, ohio. i've never been to toledo, ohio, and i've met nothing but great people, people who are concern ed concerned -- first of all, i like it because i don't have to wear a suit tonight. >> yeah! >> you know, toledo, ohio, is a

very special place in america's history when it comes to workers. i saw that today as soon as we got here at the airport. we got in the car, we started driving through, a city that i wanted to know about. and of course we had a cabdriver, cabdrivers are like encyclopedias. they know everything there is to know about their city. and one fact that jumped out at me right there in the cab today was china has purchased land in the city of toledo. is that correct? >> yeah! >> so let's start the program understanding one thing. our competitor, china, across the way thinks there's something of value in toledo, ohio, so they purchased it. i guess it it's that free market thing they're doing, you know? but here in america we haven't had anyone step up and say, i want this it building, i want

this and i want to create opportunities. chinese are willing to do it here in america, but where are investors? now, when we were driving through the city today, i saw the elementary school and i thought, well, senate bill 5 is after the teachers who are in that building. when i went past the construction site, there were a few works, not as many as there should have been, when i went past mercy hospital, i thought, well, those nurses are in there, they're fighting like hell, they want a fair shake. and how many people are walking into that emergency room without health care? and then i went to downtown and i saw all of these buildings. now, folks, you hear about it on the news, you read about it on the news. but when you go through a city and you see brick and mortar and you see buildings that have got signs on them that say, nobody's doing business here, you can lease it it, and it's building after building, you know what this city is really good at so far? putting boards over windows. and i couldn't help but think,

okay, what happened in this it building? what did it they used to do here? what did they manufacture? where did those jobs go? why did they lock them out? where did those workers go? did they leave? are they gone? do they not want to work? what's happening here? and when you see buildings like that here in the rust belt, here in the bread basket of labor in america, here where there are open hearts that want to work and don't want a handout, you have to ask yourself the question -- what kind of country are we becoming? president obama is trying to do something to put people back to work, but we have this political divide taking place in washington, d.c., that is absolutely amazing. we have one party that says, we're not going to do anything to help this president because we want to defeat him. the president talks to the american people and says, these folks can't wait 14 more months. so the president is on tour.

i hope he goes on tour every single day, and i hope he goes to north carolina again. i hope he goes to indiana. i hope he goes to michigan. i hope he comes back to ohio. he was in ohio yesterday, and he said this about the jobs bill. >> ohio, if you pass this bill, then right here in this state tens of thousands of construction workers will have a job again. pass this jobs bill, and there will be funding to save the jobs of up to 14,000 ohio teachers and cops and firefighters. there are schools all throughout ohio that need this kind of renovation. there's a bridge in cincinnati that connects ohio to kentucky that needs this kind of renovation. there are construction projects like these all across the country just waiting to get started and there are millions of unemployed construction workers looking for a job. so my question to congress is, what on earth are we waiting for?

>> and of course a gallup poll out today showing 45% of americans want their congressional member to vote for the american jobs act. only 32% want them to vote against it. so, once again, the people aren't being listened to by the republicans. now, in the state of ohio, boots on the ground here, it it's a radical agenda that has been proposed by governor kasich. he has gone after collective bargaining, he's gone after the workers. so here's what's happening. in washington, they are saying, well, we're not going to do this jobs package because we want to see president obama defeated, and that's our goal. that's the republicans. here in the heartland, you have kasich on the offensive with the american workers. what has he done to help the factories across the street that are empty? what has he done to help out the teachers, the nurses? what has he done? he's taken away their voice in the workplace. that's why these people you see here tonight, 1.3 million ohioans have signed on to issue

number two to say, we don't want it it like this in our state. so it wasn't only happening in wisconsin, indiana, in michigan and new jersey and florida, it's happening here in ohio. okay? and last night after months of being very dogmatic about his position, after months of saying he doesn't want to negotiate, now that issue number 2 is on the ballot, here's kasich on safe haven with sean hannity on fox news. >> families are unemployed, sean. we've got to things together. we've got to reach common ground. like the payroll tax cut and other things that we can agree on. let's find those things we can all agree upon so we can start getting these kids out of poverty and get people back to work.

>> yeah, let's find some of those things we can work on, governor kasich. i want every ohioan that we have this chair tonight. this is for governor kasich, i wanted him on the program, but he didn't want to be here to talk about it. i'm going to be in columbus, ohio, tomorrow night. governor, i'm going to have this same chair sitting right here for you, buddy. you come right on over here. you just -- you see, because, john, when you used to have a show on fox i was a guest on your show. but now that you're a hot shot governor going after all these workers, you don't want to come on my show and talk about the issues? you go over to hannity where it it's safe haven and get the soft balls. now after beating up the workers and getting senate 5 through a radical session of your legislature, now you want to sit down and talk about it, now that

issue 2 is on the ballot. it doesn't work that way. here's the bottom line. there's a sign in the back of this room, it says, fight the attack on the middle class. because the battleground -- >> yeah! >> whoo! >> the battle lines are now drawn. the legislative battle lines are now drawn. and this is about workers' rights. this is about the middle class being under attack. but tonight, if i can get one viewer across america to understand what it's like to be in a manufacturing city that has lost hundreds of thousands of jobs, 400,000 manufacturing jobs gone out of this state, that's a big number. the mayor of this city who is going to join us later tonight is worried about his tax base, and he can't meet the budget. well, hell, all the workers are gone!

how can you have a tax base if you don't have anybody working and paying it? now, what i just said, if you had watched the republican debate the other night, what i just said is pretty much brain surgery, isn't it? get your -- we're going to hear from these great folks here in the program tonight. get your cell phones out, i want to know what you think. tonight's question -- will the american jobs act help towns like toledo get back off their feet? text a for yes, b for no to 622639. or go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com for a comment. we'll bring you results later on in the show. tonight, joining me is a brother in the fight, leo girard, the president of the united steelworkers union here on "the ed show."

i read about it. i hear about it. today i drove around and i saw it. it has a profound effect on you when you see a building that's empty. it makes you do a double and triple take, what the hell is going on in this country? mr. girard, what are we going to do to fill these buildings up? >> i think the first thing we need do is start working to pass the president's jobs bill. i think that's a step in the right direction. >> yeah! >> we've got to reject the radical right-wing agenda. since the passage of the bush administration in 2000 we've lost 58,000 factories. toledo is one of those examples, but you can go to many other communities, where you see the same thing. then it you have a radical agenda because the tax base has been eroded, the kasichs of the world saying they're going to

lay off teachers, firemen, nurses, not going to do anything about job creation. what you're going to do is dig the hole even deeper. what we need to do is make sure the workers reject sb-5 and reject on issue 2, vote no on issue 2 and show kasich -- what they need to do is show this governor and other governors that what people want is a chance to earn a living. they want a chance to have their voice heard, their chance to work and retire with dignity. we won't do that unless we rebuild the manufacturing base of this country. >> we're going to talk more about the manufacturing base later on in the program with you, mr. gerard. but i want to talk about this issue, issue number 2. what if it stands up? if it doesn't get repealed, what does that do to the state of ohio and workers. >> i think it will take away the bargaining power of workers and it it will continue to suppress people's wages, people's standard of living.

we just saw a report recently that showed -- bunch of right-wingers outside. what it shows is we've got more poverty now than at any time since the great depression. we've got more people that have fallen out of the system than any time since the great depression. unless we reject sb-5 by supporting and voting no on issue 2, we'll continue to suppress wages, suppress people's voices and toledo won't get up off the ground. the fact you saw the property purchased by the chinese, the chinese want to invest in america, but american management wants to invest in china. >> what's your thought when you heard that china has purchased land here in the city of toledo for $3 million after the city put $43 million in an investment into it? >> what i thought was it's a betrayal of america's industrial base. the fact of the matter is, you've got chinese companies

that want to invest here, they want to invest -- hang on a minute. they want to invest in the solar industry here, but they're destroying the solar industry that was already here. we want to make sure we're talking about government, we're talking about president obama's jobs bill. if we can get republicans to pass the president's jobs bill, we can create american jobs for american workers using american taxpayer dollars. we don't need to rely on the chinese if we could get the republicans to do their job. >> joining us later in the program talking more about manufacturing jobs, we'll visit with the folks here in ohio, and there's just so many facets of creating jobs. it's about risk takers, about believing in american workers. leo gerard, it thank you for joining us tonight. remember to answer tonight's question there at the bottom of the screen. i want to know what you think. manufacturing jobs in ohio have been on a decade-long decline. congresswoman marcy captor of ohio joins me to talk about the

importance of passing the jobs bill. and later the mayor of toledo joins us, a supporter of senate bill 5. i want to know why. he's a former firefighter. we're right back with more from the folks of toledo, ohio. we'll be right back. [ female announcer ] you have all this chicken. chicken, chicken chicken. there are thousands of ways to prepare it. [ chickens clucking ] you know only two of them. time to mix it up. time for new philly cooking creme. it'll take your chicken to places it's never been before. somewhere creamier, dreamier, with lots of flavor. look at you all chef-like. spread the love around in four fabulous flavors. spoon in a little new philly cooking creme. ♪

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welcome back to "the ed show" here in toledo, ohio, where we are with the folks who want a job. you i want to go to the folks here. your name? >> teresa brown. >> why are you here tonight? >> to support labor and get this thing passed. >> is it all about labor or is it about the middle classes? >> it's about the middle class. all we want is to make some decent livings, good wages. we just want to live. >> your name, sir? >> sha ron crowder. >> what do you think about the environment here in ohio and the senate bill 5?

>> i've seen a whole lot better environment. senate 5 -- >> how important is it that it gets repealed? >> it's the most important thing in my lifetime. >> you, sir, what do you think? >> i think senate bill 5 is going to do nothing but take away workers' voice at work. >> what would you do to fill these buildings across the street? >> i think i'd support the president's jobs bill. i'd start making sure we had fair trade agreements with foreign countries. i'd make sure that countries that manipulate their currency, that there would be penalties on them so we'd have a level playing field here in american manufacturing. >> and what do you think? >> i say the same thing. i totally agree with them. we need to get rid are of kasich, for one. >> what do you make of kasich ace attitude? >> terrible. >> he said on tv last night he's ready to negotiate. >> he's cocky, not ready to negotiate at all. >> i came to talk to you about health care. i have six kids with heart problems and a 21-year-old

daughter who has -- >> we'll talk about that. we're going to talk about senate bill 5. appreciate you bringing it up. thank you. >> stay tuned. "the ed show "continues on msnbc from toledo, ohio. we're right back. exclusive to the military. and commitment is not limited to one's military oath. the same set of values that drive our nation's military are the ones we used to build usaa bank. from free checking to credit cards to loans, our commitment to the military, veterans, and their families is without equal. ♪ visit us online to learn what makes our bank so different. usaa. we know what it means to serve.

>> i was in ohio yesterday, and their republican governor who doesn't agree with me on a lot of stuff, but he agreed it's a good idea to cut taxes for the middle class. heed said, this is not a time for partisanship. this is a time to figure out a way in it which we can get things moving in this country.

he's absolutely right. >> maybe governor john kasich supports president obama's jobs plan because the loss of manufacturing jobs has ravaged his state. the shrinking manufacturing industry in ohio is in line with the losses on a national level. after three decades of steady employment, manufacturing jobs in the united states of america have been disappearing over the past ten years. the country lost more than a third of its manufacturing jobs from 2000-2010, in the last decade, and the situation in ohio is worse. in the past decade, ohio has lost nearly 400,000 manufacturing jobs, 6% more than the national average. at least 100,000 of those jobs were lost to china. ohio cannot rebound from it these these losses without help. the president knows it it, john kasich knows it, although won't admit it. my guest knows it, my guest marcy captor from ohio's ninth

district. she joins me this evening. >> good evening. >> congresswoman, good to have you with us tonight. >> it's my privilege. i love that audience. >> no doubt. absolutely. what do you think needs to be done to bring the manufacturing jobs back ohio? i drive down the street today in toledo, i see empty buildings, it really is gut-wrenching to see it because all of the things that you think about when you do see them. you know, boarded-up buildings, you want to know what was in them? where are they now? what country did they go to? where are the people? how do we replenish these jobs? >> first, thank you, ed, for come willing to our community. and to leo gerard, thank you. thank you for helping our people tell our story, for magnifying our voice are around our voice around the country. the most important thing we can do right now is support the

president's jobs act as step number one. but that's only step number one. i agree with the guest in the audience who said we have to renegotiate our trade agreements. because every year -- and i said this to the president. even if we pass this bill and we pay for it -- it's paid for, about $450 billion -- our trade deficit equals about that amount, $500 billion a year. so it it offsets any investment we would make in our country. we have to renegotiate these trade agreements so that america is on a level playing field again. and no president in the last 25 years has been willing to do that that. >> well, how are you going to do it when you've got such corporate interests in these trade agreements?

there's more on the table that are anti worker and there's a sense in the congress that the president isn't moving fast enough on it. you're talking about an awfully heavy lift, are you not? >> you're talking about a heavy lift, but i want to tell you that the reason i'm proud you're in toledo he is because toledo has always been a strong voice for labor rights in our country and around the world. and, you know, this it has been an historic struggle. it it started with our nation, founded in slavery, where it it took us hundreds of years to both legally stop it and then to deal with all of its side effects. it wasn't until the 20th century, a century later, we even got labor laws, fair labor standards, on the books. our mother, our father were a part of that era. and now we see many of the elect are officials in our state and nationally trying to pick apart the achievements of the 20th century. as we move into the 21st century, what we see happen in the last 25 years is the outsourcing of production where

workers in mexico, china are set against our own workers and they are earning so much less money, so many fewer benefits and we've got to level that playing field. >> okay. level the playing field with changing the trade agreements, passing the american jobs bill that the president's got on the table. do you think any republicans will step up and go along? do you think this bill has a chance? >> i think that we have to fight for it. i think that the american people have to speak out. what i like best about the president's speech was he said he was going to take his fight to america. and he's in columbus, ohio, he was in columbus, ohio, and that's what it's going to take. it's not going to take a few guys getting together over in the white house behind closed doors and reaching a deal. it's going to take the president fighting with us. >> how often do you want the president to go out? the president has been out the last three days in ohio and

north carolina. is this what he has to do, in your opinion, get out there? and how often should he get out there and take this fight to the people. >> absolutely. that's where he needs to be. he needs to be there as much as he possibly can. he has family to consider, of course, but he has to allow his cabinet people to run the departments, to carry out the will of congress, to carry out his administration's agenda. and he has to go to the people. he is most effective spokesperson as is vice president biden. this is a fight. >> appreciate your time, marcy kaptur. appreciate you joining us. >> rush limbaugh says -- angry white men. i'll let the drugster and his buddies speak for themselves in "psychotalk." how do we get toledo back to work, america back to work? clean energy.

leo gerard will join us again and we'll hear from the folks in toledo with their ideas. you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc. stay with us. [ male announcer ] this is the network.

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and in "psychotalk" tonight, rush limbaugh is whining about being called an angry white man and of course he says it's all the liberals' fault. >> their talk radio consultants, advising program director, you can't go that way, it's angry

white man talk. who created this notion of angry white men? the liberals did. and for what purpose? to discredit all of conservatism. you've got to fight every day the caricatures and the tem pleats of us that the left puts out there. talk radio is not made up of angry white hosts. >> i think rush limbaugh does a pretty good job of discrediting conservatism without any help from liberals, and it's no secret where the angry white men reputation comes from are. >> god, some of you people are stupid. why don't you come in and tell us about the evil of the fossil fuels while the snow plow is driving by your house to get your stupid little hybrid out of a drift so you head to the whole food communes so you can pick out your bean sprouts. >> why do you hate my country? why do you hate my constitution? why do you hate us? i don't know why your husband doesn't put a gun to his temple.

>> get off my phone, you little pinhead. you people don't care about the trillions -- get off my phone! >> rush are, you and your conservative buddies earned your reputation all by yourselves. the angry white men. to blame it it on liberals is angry white conservative. the mayor of toledo is a former firefighter, the former city fire chief, and the state fire marshal. he knows about public employment in ohio firsthand, so why are does he support senate bill 5? he joins me next, and i praise him for doing it, right here on "the ed show." stay with us.

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by now we know what's at stake when ohio voters go to polls to decide on issue 2. senate bill 5 referendum, that's what it is. we have seen thousands march on the state capitol to protest the loss of public works' rights, labor groups including teachers, police officers and firefighters have said it loud and clear, senate bill 5 is a raw deal for ohio workers. but one man who was a firefighter once in his career for more than 20 years now finds himself in a very difficult position. toledo mayor mike bell has come out in support of issue 2. he wants to maintain senate bill 5 because he says his city is financially strapped. >> years ago i lost my job as a firefighter because my city ran out of money. as mayor, i'm working to fund the city without laying off good people or raising taxes. that's why i support issue 2.

>> joining us tonight, toledo mayor mike bell. he's here with us on "the ed show," and i appreciate it. i have immense respect for this man. he is in the arena. he has a different opinion on something. he's willing to come in front of his constituents and talk about it. that's a hell of a lot more than the governor of ohio is doing, and that's john kasich. mr. bell, i appreciate you being here and respect you for being here. i don't understand your position, though. you're a former firefighter. isn't it about people being protected, workers having the opportunity to speak their piece in the workplace as opposed to the budget when with the top 2% in the country is getting all the tax breaks? why do you have this position? >> the reason i have this position is that we've been trying to recover from a recession in our city. we started off in 2007 at 169 million. right now we're probably looking at at the end of the year maybe 152. so obviously there's a large gap there and we have to be able to lean ourselves down until the

economy turns around. otherwise -- >> so it's about the money. >> it's actually about the money. nobody is coming to work for free so we need to be able to do whatever is necessary so that our city survives. i'm not against collective bargaining. what i am, though, is pro reform. if we don't have appropriate reforms in place, then our city won't survive. >> but reforms are about cuts. let's face it. you've just said it's about the money. >> yes, it is. >> once again, these are middle class workers who are going to have to serve it up when the top 2% are getting all the breaks. where's the fairness in that? >> here's the issue for me and my city. it it's actually a double storm. one is that we attempt to do the concessions and be able to work through that. or the second portion of that storm is that those people that don't want to do that, then the only other thing for a mayor to do in a major city is to lay off people. >> but doesn't governor kasich's budget have something to do with this as well, the city is not getting the state support it should get? we're talking about going after central services.

>> i would say the recession started many years ago is having a problem here, and it's not just in toledo and not just in ohio. it's across the whole united states. >> that's true. and during this recession have 2003 and renewing the bush tax cuts which of course is less money into the treasury which make it's harder on folks like you in the municipal area cuts which of course is less money into the treasury which make it's harder on folks like you in the municipal area? there is a financial trickle-down to this. >> the bottom line for me is, i can't spend money i don't have. in this state of ohio, the city of toledo is required to have a balanced budget by march 31st. so i have two choices. i lean through concessions our expenses down, or i lay a bunch of people off. those are the two choices. it's not if. it's one or the other. so in this case, because it is bad -- >> but you won't go after the

wealthy. >> i don't have -- i'm just a mayor of a city. i can't go after the wealthy. >> so why would you side with a governor that is not willing to go after the corporations that don't pay their fair share. >> this isn't about siding or not siding with the governor. it's about having our city survive. and because nobody else will speak up, that doesn't change that we still have an issue here that has to be addressed. the issue is if it we don't have the money in the city, we can't spend it. i you don't have a problem providing raises and all of that when we have the money. bull when you have a $20 million cut from what you had about five years ago, something's got to change. >> but would you agree that this country and its trickle-down to toledo is willing to take it out of the backs of the middle class workers and not ask the affluent to pay just a little bit more to make this work? >> no, i don't necessarily agree with that. >> so you think that these tax cuts for the top 2% have been good for america? >> what i think, for me, is that

once again, in toledo, we have had a drop in a lot of different industries that have caused problems for us here. >> okay. i get that. >> so what i'm dealing with is the issue of toledo and how do we make toledo and northwest ohio survive. >> it's not only toledo, though. you're supporting a measure that wants to take away the rights of workers all throughout the state. >> but what i'm dealing with is, how do i pay the bills? >> okay. >> when the yelling and screaming and all that is over, we still have to be able to pay the bills. >> so you need the state to pass a referendum to run your city financially? >> well, what do you do -- i'll throw it back at you -- when people say no? >> i know what i'd do. >> i've already had it. we started off with a $48 million deficit. i went to my unions. i talked to them. i showed them the books. they -- >> but did you go to the wealthy of the state of ohio? there's aplenty of them. >> let me finish this. i'm dealing with toledo. i asked them, help me with this. they said, mayor, we can't help you.

it's your problem. so if it's my problem, then i need to fix it. >> okay. now, you were a firefighter. >> yes, i was. >> you lost your job, correct? >> lost my job. >> now, had these protections been in place when you lost your job, you wouldn't have lost your job, because these protections came into place later are on. is that correct? >> when i was -- back in 1980, i think somebody was saying the union wasn't around in -- local 92 was around back it then. when lost my job, i was the first one out the door. i was gone for about nine months, then i got my job back. what got my job back actually was the court system. it was the court system through affirmative action. >> so you think this is the best way for america to go, to take away the voices of workers in the workplace, to balance a budget when the rich in this country are getting off scot-free. >> once again, i didn't say i'm against collective bargaining. i'm pro reform, but i'm not against collective bargaining. >> you need to switch your position on the issue.

>> no, no, no. there's still collective bargaining. what this does is bring reform. we need to have the reforms inside our state. >> i disagree with you, mike bell, i appreciate you coming on the program. you're a stand-up guy for holding up your position. i think you should change your position. get with the people! coming up, clean energy will put this country back to work. how america can take the lead instead of taking the back seat. leo gerard weighs in along with the folks here in toledo. we'll be right back. merica, merica, there's a doctor who can peer into the future. there's a nurse who can access in an instant every patient's past. and because the whole hospital's working together, there's a family who can breathe easy, right now. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest healthcare questions. and the over 60,000 people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers.

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vote "no" on 2 and join a union and get some benefits, worker rights. >> what do you say to the mayor when he says it's about the money, he doesn't have the money to run the city? >> i think you told him just exactly what we feel, ed. you did a nice job. >> your thoughts on it, ma'am? >> same. >> sir? >> i think he has the courage to come here and speak his mind and i think the governor ought to do the same thing. >> yes! >> you know, for him, i think he's misdirected in the money is not the end result here. he needs to look at the facts and what the end result will be with this passage of this bill. >> sir, what did you think of that interview with that gentleman? >> i don't know the mayor, but i believe he's using his talking points. the mayor is forgetting that once he's out of office he's coming back in the same, looking for a job. he's been told what to do and he's playing it well. >> the way i take it, it comes down to priorities and what i talked about earlier in the show. we are facing a list of priorities in this country. what's important to us?

is it important to attack the middle class when it comes to collective bargaining? look, if you're for collective bargaining, then you have to go "no" on 2. i don't know what else you can do. but what we're seeing in this country is mayors just like mike bell who's being pressured at a local level because the feds aren't getting the money into the treasury and the state's not getting the money it needs to give basic services to people such as teachers, firefighters, the lot, which makes up the foundation of this country. stay with us. we're right back with more from toledo right after this.

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back in toledo, ohio, here on "the ed show." joining me is leo gerard, president of the steelworkers union. we're talking about renewable energy, the energy sector. there's such a broad opportunity

here for renewable energy but here again the chinese are sticking it to us. they're ahead of us. where are we deficient? >> we need an energy program, a program that says first and foremost we're going to rebuild our industrial base. part of the reason the mayor has a problem is the workers are laid off, the tax payers are gone. the standard of living has fallen. we need to rebuild the manufacturing base, we can do that with solar, wind, we need to fix the mass transit system, our schools. 60% of the schools in america are more than 50 years old. i want my kids in a good school with good teachers. >> leo, isn't it true that china is investing far more in renewable energy than we are? their infrastructure dollars far outweigh what we're doing as a country? >> china is investing much more in renewable industry. what china has done is publicly announced they're going to cheat to win. they're going to dominate the

solar industry, we should be making solar panels here. they said they're going to dominate the solar panel in the world even if they have to sell under the price of production. we've got republicans sitting there with their thumbs in their ears pretending they don't hear anything. we ought to be taking them to task, taking it away from them and building it here. >> now, just down the road from here, there's a perfect example. the chrysler manufacturing plant was saved by the obama administration with the car loan. is that the kind of thing that we have to do to jump-start renewables? >> i think we have to make sure we have a strategy. we need a strategy that says, we want to win on this. a strategy that says, we're going to do this. we have a strategy that we have a renewable standard for the whole of the country, one that lasts 10, 15, 20 years so we can attract investment and one that says as the brother says back there, force china to play by the rules and quit their cheating.

>> and in terms of workers and what we do in manufacturing in this country, i ran into a few people today saying that the rust belt is never going to come back. >> i don't believe that. we make the most efficient cars now. our steel energy is the most efficient in the world, our glass production the most efficient, paper production the most efficient in the world. we're trying to play by the rules while everybody else is cheating and they have a strategy. one last point. china and germany have a balanced account on trade, and german wages are higher than ours. what's the reason? because germany has a process, has a strategy. >> leo gerard, thanks for your time tonight. this crowd has a lot to say, and we'll talk with more of them when we come back. stay tuned. you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc, live from toledo, ohio.

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most wells are over a mile and a half deep so there's a tremendous amount of protective rock between the fracking operation and the groundwater. natural gas is critical to our future. at exxonmobil we recognize the challenges and how important it is to do this right. welcome back to "the ed show" live in toledo, ohio. i want to get the results of our text poll question tonight.

i asked you, will the american jobs act help towns like toledo get back on their feet? 86% of you said yes, 14% of you said no. tomorrow night we're going to be in columbus, ohio, at the city's professional firefighters union hall. it is open to the public if you're in the neighborhood in columbus, we'd love to have you on board. sherrod brown and dennis kucinich will join us. i will talk to the firefighters of the people of columbus. and we'll keep a seat open for governor john kasich if he shows up. "the ed show" from toledo continues with the folks, next. is it here?

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why are you sitting in the dark? ♪ [ male announcer ] in here, you're never away from home. it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. the folks of toledo, ohio! what's your name? >> jackie hayworth. >> what do you make of the climate here in ohio? what has to happen? >> we need jobs. we need to have a new governor. we need to have a new mayor. i hate to say that, but -- >> what do you want government to do to create jobs?

>> we need jobs, we need to support our president, we need to support the teachers, the firefighters, all the union workers who are here. we need help. we need help. >> your thoughts, sir. >> i agree with her completely. this is my wife. i wouldn't say no. >> what do you think, sir? >> we need to rebuild the infrastructure in the united states and make sure america goes back to work. that's what we need. >> sir, you were in this the auto industry? >> yes. >> tell us about that. what did that loan do to keep that chrysler plant open down the street. >> not only chrysler but the gm plant open, too. president obama, he supported us tremendously and we won't ever forget that. i'm proud to be a hardworking middle class american and that's what this is all about, the fight against the attack on the middle class. >> is that what it's all about? what do you think has to happen, sir? >> we have to support the president and his jobs program and we can't -- listen, i fought for the freedoms of this country

not to have some right wing person take it away from me. >> and you think that's happening? >> i think absolutely that's happening. they better start listening to the people in this room and the voice of america. >> your thoughts, ma'am? >> you're going to pass. >> one of the things that haven't been talking about is the unity within the working class of america. there's been a lot of talk of public and private sector. those are words that have been brought in to divide working class people. we have to look at we're all going to work every day. we're all taxpayers. there is no difference. we need to band together to get change in this country. >> when you hear there's an attack on the middle class, do you believe that? >> absolutely. it's been an attack on the middle class before reaganomics, when with he came in and started the trickle-down and it has not stopped. >> what are your thoughts, sir? >> fair trade. >> what's fair trade? tell me what fair trade is. they just can't dump on our market? >> that's right. that's right. we've got to get rid of the free trade.

we're go lost our jobs because of it. >> you lost your job? >> you betcha. >> what happened? >> sent them to mexico. >> mexico and kentucky. >> getting rid of the unions. >> it's all the attack on labor. >> exactly. >> but you see it's not just about labor because labor sets the standard, does it not, for all other workers in america? >> that's right. >> what do you think about that? >> i'm from michigan. i'm up here to help them beat this bill. i'm from michigan. football don't matter when it comes to this. >> look, the banksters on wall street caused this economic downturn and they're taking it out on the victims. we're the victims of this. we have people like the mayor and governor want to take it out of the victims who are victims of the economic downturn. >> you know what? if there's one message i would like our audience to take tonight from this show is that debate is healthy. and when you go out and talk to folks, is it's a lot different